Interview by Lindsay
Miller.
You're known for being
comfortable working with such a wide range of
musicians, from Sonic Youth and Andrew W.K.
to Nada Surf and Jennifer O'Connor. Do you
feel you have a decidedly different approach
to working with harder, more experimental
rock bands vs. singer-songwriters or
acoustic, indie bands?
My approach to working on a record is defined
by what the artist requires or where the
artist is at that specific time. I try to
approach every record a little different and
different records bring different situations,
including budget, amount of time to make the
record, what we are trying to achieve on the
record and what I need to focus on to give
the record it's own special something.
For example, on the Jennifer O'Connor
record, I walked in the studio the first day
knowing I wanted to capture her vocals live.
After living with the demos for a couple of
months, I was captivated by her voice and the
way she sang. So I thought, if she could
sing that great on the demos, why not get her
to lead the band during the tracking sessions
with what would end up being the master vocal
take? It enabled the band to play around the
vocal and eliminated unnecessary clutter on
the tracks. I think it also helped the guys
connect with the mood of each song to hear
her sing her heart out.
Strictly in
terms of engineering, I pretty much set
things up a similar way, the way I can get
the best sound out of the instruments and let
the music dictate the vibe.
Sometimes I will alter the approach to
recording for conceptual reasons, but I do
have a starting point that gets me off and
running.
In general, on a personal level, I
try to keep things light and get the best of
everyone or the situation. My mantra has
been and still is, "Beats Working!"
How did you first get interested in
engineering?
I was in my second year in
college and I started to get bored. I wasn't
that into my major and I was a total rocker.
I loved going to see bands, I worked at a
company called Eventide, that made gear for
recording studios on my off time and I loved
listening to what made records cool.
I got an interview at one of the major
recording studios in NYC, called The Record
Plant. It was an awesome facility. Before I
worked there, Aerosmith, The Clash, Bruce
Springsteen, John Lennon, Patti Smith, among
others had made records there.
I
took the job and left school. I was a
"general" there. My job was to log in and be
responsible for all the tapes, clean and
stock the control rooms and account for all
the gear and microphones among other things.
There was also a fair amount of running
errands to do for sessions. I quickly
learned that if I came in and worked hard all
day, certain assistants would invite me in to
observe in the evenings. So I found myself
looking in on Meatloaf and Blues Brothers
records.
I got to see some great
engineers and producers work on records.
Guys like Rick Chertoff, Mike Chapman, Jack
Douglas, Jimy Iovine, Dave Thoener, Bill
Wittman, Geoff Workman, Jay Messina and
Shelly Yakus were all very influential to me.
I'm sure you've seen a lot of crazy things
in your days, especially as an apprentice
engineer when you had to do all the dirty
work. Any really rock-and-roll stories you
can share?
Not many. I assisted on an
Aerosmith record called "Rock In A Hard
Place." There was a lot of crazy shit going
on during that record. Lotsa partying. I'd
get in at noon and wait for everybody.
People would show up in the evening and then
they would work all night through the next
day.
I remember opening up the tape
copy room and seeing Steven Tyler and Rick
James sitting on the floor smoking something.
I immediately said, "Excuse Me! " and closed
the door and got away from them. Another
time during vocals, I baby-sat Steven while
he was writing lyrics for a weekend. I was
supposed to make sure he spent the weekend
writing. As if I could actually make him do
anything.
I once had Iggy Pop light
a towel on a music stand on fire. He almost
set the sprinklers off. I burned my hands
trying to put the damn thing out. That was a
long night.
I once got arrested on
the roof for shooting rockets at The Milford
Plaza Hotel, which was across 8th Ave in
Times Square. We were in the middle of
mixing the first Outfield record. They held
me until 5:00 AM and then released me and
then I had to go back to work.
There
are many stories, but I can't tell many of
them. I actually break them out when I've
gotten a few in me. Look for me at HiFi, my
favorite bar in Manhattan and buy me a few
and look out! Ha Ha!
You kept a studio diary for Paste when you
were recording with The Hold Steady. The
experience sounded amazing--and completely
exhausting. Do you need a recharge before you
can even approach a new band and songwriters?
Is there an internal "reset" button you have
to press?
No such button exists.
I'm pretty cool going from one project to
another, but a real determining factor has
been Bella, my 3-year-old daughter. To avoid
never seeing her I try to take as much time
off as I can. I also have stopped working
insane hours. Since I get up with the baby
every morning at 8:00 AM, I try to quit work
around 10:00 PM. I still travel a bunch for
work so when I'm home, I try to be home as
much as possible.
Are you still living in Brooklyn? Are
there any upcoming local bands there that
you're really excited about?
We actually live in a rowhouse in
Jersey City. It's pretty awesome here.
We're minutes for NYC and I spend a lot of
time at Water Music in Hoboken, which is 5
minutes away. This is a neighborhood that's
getting younger and hipper.
Our
favorite new band is J Roddy Walston and The
Business. I think they are from Baltimore.
Tad from The Hold Steady turned me onto them.
We saw them play live and they were pretty
amazing. And they have a self-released
record, which is pretty cool. They are a fun
band to see live.
I also love The
Fleet Foxes, but they are pretty high profile
now. A friend of mine sent me the record a
while ago and it blew my mind.
There's a cool band in Jersey City
called The Black Hollies. They are kinda
psychedelic and garage rock. They are really
cool.
There's a band from Scotland
that I worked with called The Hazey Janes.
Great pop/rock band in the vein of Teenage
Fanclub and The Posies. They all sing great
and write wonderful songs. We saw them play
at SXSW last year and they packed out and
blew up the venue they played at.
You seem to really, really love seeing
live music. Is that live energy and sound
something you try to capture in your work?
I have always loved seeing bands
live. As a kid, I spent many summers going
to shows by my favorite bands. And when I am
asked to work with artists, I usually check
them out live. And in the cases where I'm
psyched and I think they are great, why would
I want to mess around with what makes them
special?
When it comes to working
with bands, I've always found the signing of
bands curious.
A record company
employee (A & R Man) finds a band he loves.
He goes to see them live and is really
excited about them. The band is signed and
then they go into the studio with big name
producer. Then they take the vibe that the
band has and replace it with artificial
perfection. So then you have a record that
sounds nothing like what the band sounded
like live.
And frankly, most of the
new records I hear sound so much like
"product" and not like music that it leaves
me cold. I think that's one of the reasons
that the record business is sucking wind.
How many bands put out three records and then
become huge. The last one might have been
Radiohead. Now, artists put their first
record out, it's promoted like a motherfucker
and it either does great or fails and the
band is dropped. There's not a lot of middle
ground.
We've unfortunately reduced
art to commerce and it's a pity. What was
the last CLASSIC that came out? Maybe OK
Computer? I dunno, it seems to me that the
days of the "classic record" are gone.
You still like to work in analog, and I
read an interview where you said ProTools can
be a dangerous thing, letting people get too
comfortable with the "I can fix that later"
idea. How do you think the new technology has
maybe harmed music?
I'll give you a true-life
scenario. A few years ago I engineered for a
popular band with a really good producer for
a major label. It was an important record
for them. They needed to have this record do
well or be dropped by the label. So
insecurity led to the avoidance of
committing. So songs we're re-re-re arranged
in pro tools. They had a hard time making
any decisions and digital enabled them to
prolong any decisions until the last minute.
The record ended up being unfocused and it
tanked and the band was dropped like a hot
potato.
You know the saying, "First
instinct, best instinct." That's good to
keep in the back of the mind. It's not a
hard rule. But it should be appreciated.
Quantizing and auto tuner has really
been a negative influence on rock music. Who
cares if a drum track is exactly on the
metronome the entire song? And why does
every vocal note have to be drawn entirely in
pitch. The bummer about auto tuning is that
it destroys the way a singer gets to note.
It takes any personality away. Listen to 20
emo records. Most vocals sound alike. My
older daughter loves the stuff and she's
always playing me songs and they really could
be any other record.
Now with that
in mind, let me point out that I am not a
Luddite. I do use pro tools and do vocals in
there and do edits for drums and sometimes
tighten drum tracks up, but I hate when the
medium sucks the life out of the final
product.
What the digital
workstation does is turn engineers from
professionals to hobbyists. Anybody can buy
a 002 system from Digidesign and then be an
"engineer." That's why I get a lot of calls
with people asking me to fix their records.
When you're half way through recording your
record and it's a mess, you need to bring
someone else in to fix it.
You recently reunited with Norwegian band
Madrugada. What was that experience like? How
did the loss of friend and band member Robert
Buras change the experience or the sound?
That was the most intense moments in my
working career. I'll never forget the day I
got the text from one of the band's managers.
July 12th, 2007. I was stunned. I couldn't
believe it. We had just reconciled and
worked on a couple of records together after
having a rough time working on the Madrugada,
"Nightly Disease" record around 2000. After
that record there were some hard feelings on
both sides and they went in another direction
for the next few records.
Then one day
in early 06, my phone rang and it was old
friend, Robert Buras. We butted heads the
most on "Nightly Disease", but he was not too
proud to call me. We had a great
conversation and I ended up helping finish
his side project, "My Midnight Creeps." We
had a great time and some of the pictures
during the session exude the happiness of
working together again.
And then in
May of 2007, the Madrugada boys came to
Hoboken to start recording their new record.
And the vibe within the session was off the
map. They were super productive. They
played great and the new songs sounded
awesome. It was a pleasure for me. We've
really had some highlights working in the
studio together.
They left New
Jersey for home and there was talk about me
coming to Oslo to help with overdubs during
the summer. And then I got that horrible
text.
Well after the remaining
members did a bunch of mourning and soul
searching, they decided to continue on with
the record. We convened in Gothensburg,
Sweden so they could get away from the press
in Oslo, but still be close enough to bring
extra players in from home.
It was
hard working on Robert's tracks. The idea
was to use most of Robert's tracks and
thankfully, we had spent a few nights in
Hoboken in May doing guitar overdubs. So he
had some great performances on the record.
And there was one song that Robert played on
with just acoustic and he did a reference
vocal on it. It was chilling. There were
many tears and my last night in Gothenburg
was really sad. We went out and reminisced
about him and many stories and tears were
shed. In their press release for the record,
they said the nicest things that any artist
has said about me. It was a real bonding
experience, except it came as a result of
real adversity.
Looking back at this
record and the first one, I see a band that
could be very popular, worldwide. It's too
bad labels in the States are so clueless
about them.
If you had to look back on your entire
career, what album are you most proud of?
(Either for the finished product or what you
lent to the album.)
I've been
working on records for over two decades, so
there are a lot of records to choose from.
It would be easier to pick the records and
artists I didn't enjoy.
Really, I've been lucky to work on some
records I would have been into as a kid. One
of my favorite times was the 6-month span
when I worked on The Screaming Trees' "Sweet
Oblivion", Dinosaur Jr's "Where You Been", and
Mark Lanegan's "Whiskey For The Holy
Ghost."
I'm really lucky to have worked
with bands I've been a fan of. Dino, The
Youth, The Hold Steady, Patti Smith, Jawbox,
Drive By Truckers, Turbonegro, and more.
I've also worked on records with people I had
never met and ended up having friends for
life. Like Jennifer O'Connor, who I adore as
a person.
Jesus, I spent two days
mixing a Bob Dylan song and spent a day in
the studio with Mick Jagger! I assisted on
"Girls Just Wanna Have Fun." The first time
I walked into a control room, I handed a
microphone to Shelly Yakus, who was sitting
next to Tom Petty, during the Damn The
Torpedos record. Gene Simmons showed me one
of his Polaroid scrapbooks on both coasts!
Anyway, I have some great memories.
I've worked on some cool records. And every
now and then some kid or adult will introduce
themselves to me and say something nice about
a record I worked on. I've worked with bands
that my daughter and nephew both really like
and they've gotten to hang with them.
And I've managed to not piss off too
many people along the way. And the ones I've
pissed off probably deserved it.